i feel like we're having this i'm not x supplement conversation, b/c i'm not Ces and don't play her on TV...

I reread Ces's post and didn't quite see the normative claims that you're pointing toward. For me at least, it's about having fandom opening a space that may be lacking elsewhere...that doesn't mean that space is better or privileged or normative...only that it's there and to be celebrated, b/c unlike other spaces it's not easily accessible outside of fandom.

I'm not sure all of us are really violently disagreeing or talking past one another...hmpf.