And then it seemed like some fans went, "Hey, whoah, whoah, could you not say 'we' when you say that empathizing/identifying/etc. is what 'we' fans are doing? 'Cause that's not the way I play in the fannish sandbox."
So, Hth, it seems like you are elaborating on that point...? So, it's sort of become a discussion about the way we play and...discuss, and about what types of play and discussion get privileged in... discussion? Yes? No? Maybe so?
That seems about right to me. I mean, not to speak for everyone else, but your read matches mine.
Are you saying that when identification/empathy/over-empathizing is privileged, this way of engaging keeps many white writers from writing CoC, 'cause they feel for whatever reason that they can't identify with CoC, and the dominant mode is for fanwriters to write characters they identify with?
I am saying that. And when you say you don't buy that argument, all I can say is that that's the defense that a lot of people mount for why they personally don't write CoCs -- they don't know enough, they don't feel connected to these characters. I think it is weird, but it's the world we live in, particularly because at least for white American women, there are ten bazillion issues specifically tied up with black men and sex; that's always there and always *visible,* in a way that the things that should make Methos or whomever unlike us aren't instantly visible. Fandom could prove me wrong about this one -- I'd love for that to happen! But it hasn't happened yet.
I don't feel at all piled-on by any of this! I truly admire your desire to really get to the bottom of something.
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Re: Comment #2 (let the rambling begin)
Date: 2007-06-22 05:47 am (UTC)From:So, Hth, it seems like you are elaborating on that point...? So, it's sort of become a discussion about the way we play and...discuss, and about what types of play and discussion get privileged in... discussion? Yes? No? Maybe so?
That seems about right to me. I mean, not to speak for everyone else, but your read matches mine.
Are you saying that when identification/empathy/over-empathizing is privileged, this way of engaging keeps many white writers from writing CoC, 'cause they feel for whatever reason that they can't identify with CoC, and the dominant mode is for fanwriters to write characters they identify with?
I am saying that. And when you say you don't buy that argument, all I can say is that that's the defense that a lot of people mount for why they personally don't write CoCs -- they don't know enough, they don't feel connected to these characters. I think it is weird, but it's the world we live in, particularly because at least for white American women, there are ten bazillion issues specifically tied up with black men and sex; that's always there and always *visible,* in a way that the things that should make Methos or whomever unlike us aren't instantly visible. Fandom could prove me wrong about this one -- I'd love for that to happen! But it hasn't happened yet.
I don't feel at all piled-on by any of this! I truly admire your desire to really get to the bottom of something.