hth | what people mean when they say Bernie Sanders can't get things done

Look, I'm pretty into politics, but I'm largely not into arguing about politics on the internet. It doesn't bring out my best self, and it definitely doesn't help me live my, as the kids say, Best Life. So this is my one and only public statement on why I'm not really much of Bernie person, really just to get it off my chest and not because I think anyone's mind is going to be changed.

First of all, some of my best friends are Feeling the Bern. Hell, most of them are. My partner is very much in the bag for him, and it annoys her to no end that I once was and have pretty much changed my mind entirely at this point; we can discuss it civilly for about 3 minutes at this point, and then we either have to change the subject or settle in for a fight. So believe me, I'm not unaware of the glories of the Way of Bernie, nor am I saying these things to somehow spite Bernie stans. So there you go; I think Bernie supporters are making an unwise decision, but I have nothing against them as people, by any means. And I'm actually glad he's running: I think the democratic process *needs* hard-fought primaries. We'll come back to my love of primaries in a minute, actually.

On the issues, I pretty much agree entirely with Bernie Sanders. But here's the thing: I don't really care about that so much, and it's not because I'm a cynical party stooge who hates hope and progress and likes to keep my goals nice and low. It's really just that I think the job of President of the entire goddamn nation is not solely, or even mostly, about being the Person Who's Most Right About Stuff. You know who else I agree with pretty much entirely all the time? ME. Would I vote for me for President? OH, GOOD CHRIST, NO, never ever, and nor should anyone else. I'm not qualified. I'd be bad at the job. Because it's not just about being right about stuff, and it absolutely is about having the skills the job requires. To get stuff done.

People talk about this a lot -- who can Get Stuff Done, and how much that matters. I think the conversation gets a little confused because a lot of us who support Hillary for the nomination are squeamish about saying exactly what we mean. The thing is, it's not about who can create some kind of imaginary bipartisan/"moderate" support for bipartisan/"moderate" policy platforms. Guys, we've been doing that for 8 years, and it doesn't work very well and we know it. Year by year, Congress does less and less, and it's a deliberate work slow-down so that Republicans can go forth and run on how "ineffective" Democrats are. We know this. It's going to be the same no matter which Democrat takes office. A Democrat could win with 70% of the vote, they could beat Ted Cruz's ass like he's the rotting corpse of Walter Mondale, and no Republican will ever believe there's a mandate for the Democratic agenda.

Okay, so here's where the Bernie supporters usually say "fine, so if a more moderate agenda doesn't win any friends, why shouldn't we do what the Republicans do and throw some real red meat to the base, so at least we have a strong voting block among progressives and especially young progressives? That's how the Republican party got driven right, so there's no reason we can't do the same thing and drive the Democratic party left." Sound theory. Wrong for one big reason.

The reason Bernie would be a *less effectual* President than Hillary isn't that Republicans hate socialists. Republicans hate everyone, it's their mission in life. We're writing them off right now. The reason is -- and I really feel like this hasn't been discussed enough out of a misguided sense of diplomacy -- DEMOCRATS DON'T LIKE HIM. And I mean the party, not Twitter. I mean -- gasp! -- The Establishment.

I know, I know, we all hate The Establishment. The fact that they don't like him is Bernie's big selling point! Because they're bad and corrupt and wrong about stuff, and they're scared that Bernie is going to clean house. This is the exact wave that Bernie is riding, and in that sense he resembles no one as much as (God help me) Donald Trump. The entire Republican Establishment has come out and said "do not under any circumstances elect this man, we hate him and everything about him," and voters are hearing that right now as "Trump's got 'em on the ropes now!" because Republican voters hate their party as much as Democratic voters hate ours. Yes, Bernie is better qualified and a better human being than Trump (by magnitudes of magnitudes), but essentially the dynamic is the same. "Nobody else in the entire party likes or wants to support this guy? That's good enough for me!"

Stop this. Stop this right now. This is sheerest insanity. When President Bernie Sanders gets to Washington, he's going to face an obstructionist Republican party, *and also* the very same people he spent his entire campaign yelling about being corrupt and ineffectual. He's been in the Senate for 40 years and he has like two fucking endorsements. They don't want him to run, they don't want him to win, they don't support him and *they don't like him.* It doesn't matter if he's right and they're wrong. Like any profession, politics is about relationships. Like *any human endeavor,* politics is about relationships. People will go out of their way for you if they think you're a friend and you'll do the same for them, if they relate to you, if you're one of their own. Otherwise they'll do the bare minimum required.

This is what the Bernie Sanders Generation is not grasping, in my opinion, about politics. The system is designed -- thankfully! -- to make it impossible for one fluke election to change much of anything. The 20th century saw two Presidents who were "transformative" -- FDR and Reagan, and what people don't realize is that they weren't catalysts of anything. They were the end-point. Roosevelt had the power to do what he did because of *decades* of labor activism, which included actual facts shooting and dying, and he also had the power of the absolute terror the plutocrats of his era were feeling in the wake of particularly the Russian Revolution, a genuine fear that these crazy poor people who didn't even seem to mind getting gunned down would literally overthrow the government. Nothing at this moment is analagous in the US. The Reagan Revolution was less dramatic in many ways, but it sure as hell wasn't about Reagan, who was just an old, grandfatherly weirdo who was medically incompetent for most of his presidency. He was a symbol and a rallying point for an organized and effective bloc of anti-Communist and anti-Great Society and anti-Civil Rights forces who played the fucking smartest politics of the century when they spent their energy packing courts and school boards and state legislatures during elections no one gave a shit about.

Bernie Sanders is only an effective President on the back of the Bernie Sanders Revolution. And guys, I'm sorry, but that Revolution -- which I want! like lots of people want it! -- will take time. Will take years. Will involve coalition-building and stacking lower offices, then eventually stacking Congress. The party as it is, right now, hates Bernie as much as he hates them. He's spent decades as an independent, making no effort to come out and campaign for Democrats, making no effort to show that he's part of the same team -- he literally *hasn't been* on the same team until this very minute, when he decided that Independent was good enough for Vermont but *now* he needs the DNC's money and megaphone to promote his candidacy, so *now* he wants the Democratic nomination, so he can rally a base to agree with him that the Democrats suck. OF COURSE THEY HATE HIM. Why in God's name wouldn't they?

So right now, with the Congress we have, with the state governments we have, he's useless. You don't start a fucking political movement from the top! Come on! That's not how this happens. I get the Bernie hard-sell a lot in my very liberal urban enclave of North Carolina. I admire the passion, but guess what, there's also a Senate race happening on that same primary ballot! And not a goddamn one of the kids who want to proselytize to me about the Bernie Revolution and how "excitement" for him is going to get young people to the polls can tell me which of the four Democratic candidates for the Senate they support.

It's a simple question. When all these excited young people come out in 5 weeks, which of these four candidates is going to *help Bernie* enact his revolutionary agenda? Because I'd think you'd want to punch a card for that person, too, but nobody seems to know who they support for that. I guess they're not "excited" about the Senate race. Christ, we have a disastrous Republican governor in this state, and no one from the Bernie Generation seems too "excited" about the gubernatorial primary, either. That should matter a fucking lot! Remember that Medicaid expansion that wasn't, because it got scotched on the state level for political reasons? The federal government can't operate effectively without state buy-in, so we can't just flip the Senate and ignore our reactionary state governments.

This is why I don't trust or believe in the Bernie Revolution. These kids aren't going to *keep showing up.* They're not going to roll up their sleeves and campaign for Deborah Ross. (Who? She's who I like for the Senate seat.) They're not going to get smart about the importance of flipping local Sheriff races and judicial races and learn who has whose back on the state level, let alone in Congress. You know who has the job of caring about all that? The Establishment.

If progressives think we can do a better job, then okay! But right now there's no evidence of that, and several years of evidence indicating that Millennial voters don't turn out for half-time elections, *let alone* for primaries. It's all "we don't do it because the party sucks!" and zero acknowledgment that if the party sucks, you *flip the party.* Election after election. Year after year. You find the progressive candidates. You raise money for them, you hammer your Facebook friends with their names, you fucking *vote for them.* You drive established politicians left because you actually give them something to be scared of by saying "be our friends on this issue, or we will make your re-election hell." An off-season local election can *absolutely* be flipped by a couple hundred passionate voters. Conservatives do it all the time. *They* show the fuck up, every election, every single time, and they know who they support, and they hold their elected officials' feet to the fire with real-world consequences. Progressives don't. Want to start? Great, start! Start now, start immediately! But don't think you're going to start with the fucking Presidency, because I really hope you learned in civics class that it doesn't work like that. Presidents don't go it alone, and right now you're setting Bernie up to potentially win a presidency and have to go it alone.

That will be a monumental disaster. I can't even express how damaging that would be to the party in the long run. And no matter how much you hate the party (and I feel you on that), it's insane to think that if you show a progressive President unable to get any traction with his own party, you'll somehow be proving the righteousness of progressivism. You'll be proving that it's toothless, because right now it essentially is.

Someday we get our progressive President. The person is out there right now, in the DA's office or working in the Department of Labor or thinking about running for the school board. *Find that person.* Back their candidacy hard for city council or Attorney General. Bernie Sanders is a crotchety old weirdo who doesn't appear to like anyone, but somewhere out there is your RL Leslie Knope, who's winning and charming and passionate about all your favorite issues, and that person needs this so-very-excited generation's help to get established. In ten years that person runs for Congress. In twenty for the presidency. If you don't want that person to win the old-fashioned way, through PACs and corporate donations and relationships with the party elite, great, give them a second option. Make sure they know they owe it to the base, and make sure they're coming up through the system surrounded by colleagues and allies who also owe it to the base.

But it can't be in 2016. The work hasn't been done yet, and tipping one election -- if Bernie supporters can manage it, which I honestly hope to God they can't -- doesn't constitute the work, not if everyone still knows that his supporters won't show up for any other candidates, not this year or next year, not for another four years. Elect him now, and you're stranding him completely helpless in the middle of a system that is designed to resist structural change and surrounded by people he's insulted and alienated. He's had a great Senate career. He's a great Senator. I beg of you not to do this to him. This is not how he deserves to go down in history.

Okay, that's it. I don't have a lot more to say about the 2016 primaries. Please vote. Please vote every single time, forever and always, until you die. Too many people *did* die to get us to universal suffrage, and the Other Guys are still trying to roll it back, because they know that if every single person in this country really cared about politics and really participated and voted every single time, they would never, ever win another election until the heat death of the universe.

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Thank you for writing this.

You're very welcome! Like I said, I don't expect a lot of minds to change at this point, but I've been thinking about this a lot and I really wanted to articulate it at least once. Thanks for reading!

thanks so much for beautifully articulating my (inchoate) thoughts and apprehensions on a potential Sanders nomination/win. you've said some v.v. smart things here, which should be required reading for everyone of voting age in the US

Thanks! It's weird for me to have aged into the role of grizzled strategy advisor, but that's what I really feel like this time around! I'm like, "kid, I have seen some campaigns! Trust me on this, you don't want what you think you want!" I know it's potentially pretty condescending, but -- I really don't think these young progressives are going to want what they get if they get what they want, y'know?

CLINGS TO YOU LIKE A WOMAN CRAWLING OUT OF A DESERT. Thanks for posting this! because I'm starting to feel CRAZY OVER HERE.

I know, right!?! Does Steve Rogers have to sit the entire nation down for a remedial civics class, or does ANYONE around here remember how this system functions? Systems resist change, it is THING ONE about systems! You gotta be smart about how you apply pressure to them, and Bernie's not smart about how he applies pressure, and he's not coaching his people to be, either. I mean, I don't do this professionally or anything, I just get the internet, why can't *everyone else* see this? I don't *think* either of us are the crazy ones....

Very informative, thank you!

Sure thing, really glad you got something out of it!

I haven't heard anybody say this before. It gives me another way to look at this election. Thanks for posting.

Yeah, I think we're all a little scared that we'll sound petty if we just say "The Establishment isn't going to go to work for this guy even if he wins." But honestly, it's pretty basic! Politics really is about relationships, and when you have a politician that's so resistant to building and maintaining those relationships, it's fair to have a lack of trust and a lack of wanting to put your ass on the line for him, feeling like they're going to have their motives insulted and then be hung out to dry at the midterms in exchange. It may be a *little* petty, but I think it's pretty damn human.

YES. A THOUSAND TIMES, YES. THANK YOU.

Heh, thanks! Glad you got something out of it!

Yes, this.

The nice comments are very encouraging! I turn on my computer in the morning and I feel like I'm adrift in this crazy BernieWorld where underpants gnomes are designing the campaign strategy and no one else has noticed! It's good to know I'm not the only person on the internet who feels this way.

This is a fantastic post--thank you for writing it! I hope you won't mind if I share it on Twitter and Facebook?

Thank you! Yeah, my theory is if you don't want something linked, then you don't really want to put it on the internet. That's what internets are for, you know? So feel free.

This is a brilliant post! I wish it weren't true, that there could be a revolution right now. But your analysis is so on point, especially in your description of the importance of lower races and the need to have at least your side on your side...

I'm actually pretty scared of the way radical notions drive both sides--even if I think Sanders' side is neither radical nor wrong :)

Yeah, it's odd after all these years of saying, "Look, our side isn't perfect, but at least the agenda isn't set by ideologues who'd rather burn the whole thing to the ground than admit you have to compromise in a country where millions of people don't agree with you!" -- uh, that may not be true anymore? We may be setting our agenda exactly that way for a while?

It's a good agenda. It's the right agenda. But these people are still ideologues who can't seem to deal with disagreement in any way other than (to borrow one of my favorite West Wing lines), "They'll like us when we win."

This is really well put. I especially like the part about finding your own RL Leslie Knope and getting them established. I'm really glad that Sanders is doing well in the primaries. He has a message that needs to be heard, and every vote for him helps make the case that yes, there is a constituency out here for more leftish economic policies. But I worry a lot about what would happen if he actually won.

I'm 1000% with you. I originally intended to protest-vote for Sanders in the primary, just to do that thing where you impress upon people that, hey, the progressive left still exists, check the numbers! But now I'm like, holy shit, the protest candidate can *win,* and protest candidates make *terrible* presidents! So yeah, no, not so much anymore.

Of course, 5 weeks is a long time. If he completely craters (which he may when he gets to the more racially diverse states, assuming things stay pretty stable in terms of the POC voters who actually make up a majority of Democratic voters) by the time I vote in March, hell, I may revert to my original plan.

Thank you very much for your take on this.

I'm standing at crossroads this election cycle. For the first time in my life I won't be casting a vote for president in the primary and it kind of weirds me out but some of what you have to say wrt to Saunders resonates and Clinton doesn't get my vote ever because of South Carolina in 2008.

When I try to explain to people that I'm still voting - I've got a whole ballot worth of stuff since I'm in California, there's disbelief from younger people that I won't vote for a president. The Bernie supporters like to go all in there as if my lack of support for him is the deciding factor; it's not.

But I'm also 50 years old. I've seen these "high-stakes" arguments for years and for me it all boils down to this: if you didn't vote in the midterm, don't come crying now. The midterms is when things get through because the Dems never rally the base EVER. I should know; I've worked every election since 2004 as Judge. I like doing it and I have a blast but I know what the numbers look like at the end of the night. I know who doesn't show up. And since most of the precincts I've worked in skew heavily on the Dem side, it's pretty telling.

At the last midterm election I had a lot of people turn in their vote by mail ballots on election day. Cool. But those numbers still skewed older.

Thank you for working the election! It's fundamental national/regional/local service!

My husband and I were having a similar conversation just yesterday (and I forwarded him this post) and you really clarified some of what we were trying (less successfully) to say, and gave us a couple more points that we hadn't quite made it to, like the disinterest in other, more important elections. Thanks.

Yeah, I tend to be terse, so say: Anyone preaching governmental revolution by voting for a presidential candidate HAS NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.

I've seen this linked by like four separate people who I really respect on twitter today, so I just wanted to take the time to say, well said. ^^

You articulated a morass of thoughts that I've been having, alongside my continued frustrated chant that the presidency is an administration/bureaucracy, with very few tools for sweeping change! That is Congress' job! The President's job is to administrate! and of the many things Bernie is not, he is most absolutely not an administrator.

yeah.

Oh, and you mentioned civics class upthread--I was judging a debate last month, on the topic of changing the voting age from 18 to 16. I asked the room if they'd ever taken a civics class, and then my heart was wounded when I had to explain what a civics class was. They apparently haven't been taught since I was in high school. Augh.

I thought you might be interested in this post, if it hasn't already crossed your path.

This, 100%, speaking as a Vermonter who's voter for Bernie every single I was able since I turned 18.

This. Exactly this. Thank you for giving word to the incoherent mess of anger that are my thoughts right now.

Thank you for this. I followed dine over here. I read parts of this to my Bernie-loving spouse and he started ranting about how Bernie is saying all the things that people want to hear, and I said yeah, so is the Donald. He said, "Exactly." And I said, so Bernie and Donald are the same person, just different sides? Aaaaand, he got mad and shut up.

I've supported Hilary since Bill was running the country, and I'm not stopping now. We need a female President now, more than ever. It's true that every President pushes their own personal agenda, and women need someone with real power to push theirs.

And, I'm linking to this from my journal also. If I could put this on the front page of every paper in the country, I would.

If I quote you on Obsidian Wings, do you want to be linked back here? If not, what moniker would you like?

Yes, this, all of this.

eta: In addition to the Bernie supporters not knowing enough about the downticket but major races, there's a particular problem in NC with ignoring the state-level races.

North Carolina is one of the most gerrymandered of states. Gerrymandering by Republican-led states makes it almost impossible for Democrats to get a House majority, even when they get a majority of the votes.

To get anything progressive (or even just non-Republican) *done* on a national level will take a 3-pronged approach:

1. the Presidency, where overall policy and judges come from
2. the Senate, which *is* flippable with party co-ordination
3. reduce gerrymandering to have a shot at the House

AFAIK the Bernie Revolutionaries aren't even thinking about #2 and #3. Without them, there *is* no Revolution.

Edited Date: 2016-02-12 03:12 am (UTC)

Yes hello, NC resident here. Thanks for remembering we exist! (No, seriously.)

A state appellate court invalidated two districts last week, telling the GOP legislature to redraw them by next Friday. (Note: this is also what happens when the protections of the Voting Rights Act are stripped away.) Our primary is March 15. The GOP is whining about how they can't do it, it'll make everything harder, etc, and of course taking the districting to SCOTUS. http://www.wral.com/nc-redistricting-case-heads-to-us-supreme-court/15343601/

I was amazed I did not see the NC decision linked *everywhere* because it seems huge to me, but I guess it is one of those "people do not understand how government works" things.

I'd also like to see our voter ID requirement overturned, but redistricting would be great.

I honestly think people don't pay attention to this kind of thing, and they write off "the south" as some monolithic conservative backwater. It's true, parts of the south are real conservative backwaters, but it's not a monolith. Like, Democratic candidates got 53% of the votes in the US House elections 2 years ago, but the GOP got 9/13 seats--because of the atrocious gerrymandering. (Blah blah yes the dems did it too, but when you have 13 seats and a 55/45 constituency, you'd expect it go to 7:6, not 6:7, and DEFINITELY not 4:9. And previously, it was a lot closer to 7:6.)

In short, civics is woefully neglected in this country.

I also think that a lot of civics education varies in quality based on who its being taught to? School to prison pipeline, etc.

If you are interested in a good twitter feed by a HS civics teacher who links good things, may I rec https://twitter.com/klorio?

1000x THIS. So freaking much THIS.

Here via cathexys. Thank you so much for saying this! It's really great that some people over there are thinking about things and engaging with politics for the first time and all, but—yeah. I don't think it looks like Bernie will make it through to the nomination, pragmatically, but I really wish he would channel his base's energy towards getting more involved in the process overall. I think it might just disillusion everyone though. *sigh*

Thank you for writing this. Wonderfully said.

Here via cathexys.

I would share this on facebook/my journal, but I am SO EFFING TIRED of the Bernie stans not hearing a syllable of criticism of their hero.

I know I'm an old fogey. I remember campaigning for McGovern, ffs.

Then I got true religion and campaigned for super-left parties who couldn't even get on a national ballot now.

And then I began to understand what you have explained so well in this essay. I got involved in local politics (it's easier to do than you think! It's massively frustrating! You'll never be the same!)

I know my Lesley Knope and I'll do whatever it takes for her. (I've voted for her every time: County Board, state Representative, US representative, US Senate.) Tammy Baldwin, D-WI knows how governments work, and shares my values. Remember her name. /end campaigning

Oh my god, I think you took the words right out of my mouth.

I have a hard time articulating why I don't "feel the Bern" to a lot of my friends and colleagues. Because it's not that I don't support Sanders' proposed agenda. I agree with most of it, in fact. But for the reasons you mention in your post, it's not gonna work.

Thank you for writing this!

This! This is exactly what I've been arguing with people in person about too. (Not on the internet. The internet is vile and I don't have the energy.) Bernie's talk of a revolution has also been reminding me about how Obama's great change rhetoric basically hit reality like a brick wall when he actually took office.

Yes! I was arguing this during the 2008 election cycle. This is great talk of Hope and Change and bipartisanship, but how is any of this actually going to happen because the stuff he is talking about happens in Congress and they are working to stonewall any of this from happening? So yeah. Ugh.

...there is also a part of me that thinks of Hillary Clinton as an LBJ style president versus Benrie/Obama being more JFK style presidents.

LBJ got shit done. It wasn't always pretty. There were lots of favors called in or promised. Lots of long lost dirt mentioned. He played dirty with intimidation in ways I find personally unappealing and would not ever condone.

And yet...he passed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act and I really don't think even with his shiny Kennedy smile that JFK would have been able to get those things through (at least, not without LBJ doing all that background work.)

And I don't think I can really convince the Bernie people that we should vote for Hillary Clinton because she knows how to smile and twist arms and play dirty politics like the rest of them? And that she probably has decades of dirt on people if she really really needs a vote? And that obviously *she* can stand up to intimidation, she lived through HillaryCare and the Lewinsky trial and ran for Senate and was Secretary of State and testified in the whole Benghazi thing. Also that I think foreign leaders would respect her much more than Bernie Sanders when you get down to it.

(I mean also Clinton would probably do some coalition building, too, but I imagine a certain amount of arm twisting would be involved in some of the coalitions.)

How would Sanders get things done? He'd ultimately have to get not much done, or default to executive orders. Which at the rate we're going with executive orders I think is basically breaking down the democratic process about as much as the Congressional stonewalling and yeah.

I mean young-and-energized idealistic early voter self would not want to hear any of this either.

Thank you for giving us your honest point of view on this primary. I appreciate reading different opinions, especially during important election years. Though few of us are by any means experts in political science we are citizens with the right to express our opinions. This election cycle has proven to be one of the most interesting I have participated in, considering that I have been voting since 1976. I would like to suggest to everyone that an open mind is what is most important when it comes to voting...never to take anything at face value. Do your research, don't let anyone make this decision for you. I do not believe in viciously attacking anyone in either party...we are lucky to have the diversity we have, the checks and balances that come with living in our democracy. I used to live for a time in Eastern Europe during the 70's. I saw what it was like in socialist Poland where they had many political parties but only one actual party in control. We do not want that...we might hate the Democrats, hate the Libertarians, or hate the Republicans but we are damn lucky to have the freedom to disagree. This year will be particularly difficult as more and more seem to vehemently oppose anyone with a different point of view. Let's try and be better than they were in 1880's when campaigns were filled with slander and diatribes. Probably too much to ask in this age of internet anonymity. Thank you.

Thank you. i campaigned for McGovern in 1972. Disaster, not interested in repeating, especially the part about the Republican winning.

Hey, thank for reminding me to go hit up my voter power site and figure out who the lower election candidates are going to be. I'mma cry though, there's no Dem candidates AT ALL for State rep. or State senate.

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