MY FUCKING FANDOM GIVES ME FUCKING FITS, part 34,849

[hth]

Warning: the following is not nice. It is not just, it is not kind, it is not respectful, and it may not even be sane. I may regret it in the morning, I don't know.



In clicking randomly through lj links this evening, I ran across a post-ep entry from somebody whose name I know from SGA fandom -- I specify that because I want to say she's not someone I have some kind of pre-existing grudge toward; I really only recognize the name and know nothing about her, really (I'm even only assuming it's a "her," out of statistical likelihood). And even though I've been frothing at the mouth for an hour now, I'm not trying to put her in particular on the spot for Fandom Crimes writ large, which is the reason I'm not naming her or being super-specific; I suppose she'd recognize herself, and maybe some other people would, too, but mainly I'm hoping it's anonymous enough to let me vent without putting her in an embarrassing position.

That said.

There was a person, right, a relatively prolific writer of and about Sheppard/McKay, and she'd seen an episode, and the episode contained some pretty obscure potential subtext between two characters that she particularly dislikes as a pairing -- enough that she felt it might give people an excuse to write fic about this pairing. And to paraphrase, she basically said, Oh, God, I hate CharacterZ/CharacterQ, and lately everyone seems to love them, and this will only get those other fans all excited. Maybe I'll just unsubscribe from sga_noticeboard until I don't have to worry about seeing all those CharacterZ/CharacterQ stories floating around.

And I don't exactly know where to begin, but I just -- I continue to be so fucking appalled at the outrageously self-centered, entitled, black-hole-of-need wing of McShep fandom. YOU MOTHERFUCKERS ALREADY OWN EVERYTHING. You are everywhere. Your pairing is everywhere. Are we even *on* the same sga_noticeboard? People are writing you literally a dozen or more stories PER DAY, all about your darling lovelies. YOU HAVE FUCKING WON, ALL RIGHT? Now get off our fucking backs!

I don't know if there will be a mad upsurge in Z/Q fic, but I'm pretty sure that if so, "mad upsurge"=maybe five or six stories MAX, TOTAL written by X/Q fans in response to Episode T. But your VIRGIN FUCKING EYEBALLS aren't capable of doing what we plebes do every day of our lives and PAGING DOWN your flist, past the links to the stories you don't want to read? You're too goddamn good for that? The mere knowledge that other people are out there writing their crazy Other Pairings is so upsetting for you that you have to go lie down with a cold compress until it's over?

Well, lucky fucking you -- because it will be over. If I want to unsub and come back when everybody's writing what I want and not writing what I don't want, I'll be gone for a factor of FOREVER.

And you know what? I do truly think that's what a lot of people want. I think there's a stratum of this fandom that would like people like me to just go away, because all we're doing is breathing the oxygen of the McKay/Sheppard people. And it's not just that they don't like our pairings and they don't care what we do -- I've never read a Lorne/Parrish story in my life, because I don't care and I don't want to; I'm not saying everyone needs to be a fan of everything. It goes way past that. It's not "well, whatever you want, I'll be over here doing my thing," it's this attitude like we are an actual drag to have co-existing within the same fandom. You have to UNSUB? SERIOUSLY? So you don't accidentally read our HEADERS?

I've been doing this fandom thing for many years now (10 years! Jesus Christ!), and I feel like I've had a really successful fangirl career. I'm not the best writer in the fandom; I'm probably not even the tenth best writer in the fandom, but those other ten girls are so fucking AWESOME that they deserve their spots in the sun, and in most cases I'm, no shit, the biggest fan they have. But I'm proud of what I write, and I get some of the best feedback on the planet -- I'm consistently amazed at the time and the attention that my little cadre of readers invests, time and again, in what I write. I'm happy being the kind of writer I am -- I mean, if I weren't, it's not like I'm too stupid to figure out what kind of thing I should be writing to get more attention. If I needed universal validation, I wouldn't have spent the last month of my life writing a giant fucking het epic with an OFC; the story before that I wouldn't have shot John; I'd do a lot of things differently, if being in the mainstream of SGA fandom was my big goal. I love what I do and I wouldn't change it for the world, and I've never been less than humbled and amazed by the attention I do get. This is to say: I'm not on this Earth to win over the McShep brigade, and they could ignore me until the end of time and it really wouldn't phase me at all.

What leaves me shocked and hurt and angry isn't that there's a large segment of the fandom that doesn't care for/about what I do. It's that I genuinely feel like they want us gone -- like they feel that SGA fandom and all its associated pan-fandom space (like noticeboard, for example) is and should be and deserves to be the property of its largest contingent -- as if the fandom should be majority-rules and that those of us who are hanging around loving the fuck out of X/Q or A/C or O/P or whatever it is we're passionate about are basically in the way. We're a nuisance that they have no choice but to wait out, hoping that soon the fandom can go back to what they basically think it is anyway: the glee club for the John and Rodney Show.

And, you know, a huge part of me wants to do exactly that. The constant, steady, relentless drumbeat of OMG DON'T YOU JUST LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM ALL THE TIME?!!?11! is wearing enough as it is -- and I'm not even anti- the pairing. It's just like somebody trying to get you to eat strawberry shortcake seven times a day, every day of your life. Strawberry shortcake is *fine,* it's nice, I like it perfectly well, right up until the day when you hit that wall and all you can think is JESUS, SHUT THE FUCK UP, I'LL HURL ALL OVER THE FLOOR IF I SEE ONE MORE STRAWBERRY FUCKING SHORTCAKE. And that's sad, because it's a nice dessert, and McKay/Sheppard is a nice pairing (I have at least ten or twelve stories within it saved in my permanent collection of Bulletproof Fic that I read every time I need my comfort fix). Even if I had the power, I wouldn't want to stop people from digging on their favorite thing and I don't want to make them feel guilty for doing so, which is why I put 99% of the burden on myself. I avoid the places I know I can expect the especially shrill and piercing variety of squee that I know rubs me the wrong way. I choose what I click and don't click on. I tailor my Fandom Experience so that I stay as much as possible out of the situations that I know will set me off (obviously, I'm not successful every single day). And on the days when all of that feels impossible, like an umbrella in a hurricane, yeah, I consider severing my ties with this fandom.

But, you know, there's a lot that I'd miss, too. And I kind of like being the Loyal Opposition -- I think we're worth something, me and the rest of the fans who love our X/Q and our O/P and our other pairings that y'all think are weird and boring and squicky and totally violate the perfect purity of Rodney & John's eternal bliss. And basically, if we can slog along, hoping for our little moments, hoping this'll be the one day this week when one of our own will pop up with a story in our beloved pairing, patiently hitting our scroll button over and over and knowing that the charge we get will be even better for having had to wait for it and discover it -- then you can surely endure to have us around. And any suggestion that you can't endure it, or that you have to run and flee and hide from reminders that we exist -- well, that's just being a bad fucking winner.

There's such a thing as Carson fans in this fandom. There's such a thing as Teyla fans. There's such a thing as Elizabeth fans in this fandom. PLEASE BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY, WE HAVE ALL HAD A HARD YEAR OF IT. We've taken hit after hit, only to have people who write stories that suggest that John and Rodney live alone on a space station somewhere tell us that we're big whiners and anything short of being totally stoked about s4 is childish and unfair. If you can't possibly find it within yourself to be sympathetic allies, even though your guys still are and always will be the leads and you don't have to worry that you'll ever be in our position -- if you can't be our friends in this, please at least refrain from acting as if you resent the pieces of the fandom we've carved out for ourselves, and most of all refrain from suggesting that public SGA fandom space isn't large enough for all of us at once. Because we all know that you're not going anywhere. Nor should you have to.

Nor should we.

Comments

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Oh, God, I hate CharacterZ/CharacterQ, and lately everyone seems to love them, and this will only get those other fans all excited. Maybe I'll just unsubscribe from sga_noticeboard until I don't have to worry about seeing all those CharacterZ/CharacterQ stories floating around.

Oh, man, this would have made the top of my head blow off, too.

It's so *terribly awful* when other fans get to be happy for once, is it? It's such a *trial* when canon actually supports other pairings besides your OTP? It's almost like you're watching an ensemble show with more than two characters and more than a single viable pairing with actual canon support!

You know, I *like* John and Rodney. I like John/Rodney together. I've *written* John and Rodney together. Like you, some of my favorite stories in this fandom are John/Rodney-- maybe even most of them.

And I know that *most* of the time when people make jokes about "the John and Rodney show," -- they don't *mean* it in that irritating way. They don't really *mean* to say "this is the John and Rodney show and the John and Rodney fandom, dammit, and if you're not a McShep OTP person then you're watching the show wrong and you have no place here and you might as well leave..."

But when you hear shades of that, over and over and over again...

(I, personally, have criticized people for being too goddamn negative about S4, but I hope I've never come across as saying it's unreasonable to have *any* trepidation about S4. I'm just annoyed at people who are *actually trying to hurt the show* rather than just stop watching if they don't like it any more.)

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

It's almost like you're watching an ensemble show with more than two characters and more than a single viable pairing with actual canon support!

I occasionally think that a different show is being beamed magically into my talky-box than the one they're seeing on theirs. I keep seeing episode commentary that's like, "Sateda is such a perfect John/Rodney episode!" and "That's crazy, I can't even tell that Rodney *likes* Carson, I don't think he does" -- and...could there be more than one *show*? Would that explain the problem here?

I know they don't mean it -- in that, if you asked them, "Is it okay with you if I continue to write other pairings?" I assume they would say that of course I could do whatever I liked. I think it's just a mental template: All About McShep=business as usual, anything else=a deviation from the norm. I mean, we've always had a problem in this culture distinguishing between *normative* in a statistical sense and *normal* in a judgmental sense. Other pairings are less common, therefore they're viewed as kind of freakish and aberrant, even when we tolerate them.

Basically, I'm spoiled by popslash, where I never felt like people who wrote the numerically largest pairings -- JC/Chris and Chris/Lance -- viewed the Timbertrick people and the Nick/Justin people and the rest as dreadful eccentrics. There were just multiple pairings within the canon, and you picked a common one or a less common one and that was that. Buffy was pretty much the same way: it actually tended to reward authors who attempted odd or unique pairings, if only for chutzpah. So it's weird to be here, where the attitude isn't exactly, "get out!" but it is "what the hell is wrong with you, why aren't you watching it right?"

As for s4 -- I do tend to be oversensitive to criticism about criticism. I don't know exactly what you mean by "hurt the show" -- I mean, I'm not going to carbomb the studio or hold Martin Gero hostage or anything -- but nothing gets my hackles up faster than the explicit or implicit, "well, if you don't like it, why don't you just not watch the show?" Because, you know, regular people just flip channels until they find something that doesn't irritate them, but fans, by their very nature, argue back. The whole point of media fandom, to me, is the ability to appreciate the parts I appreciate and question the parts I don't, to cheerlead with all the squee I have in me today and tomorrow call the writers crack-smoking weasels with brain-damage and still be a *fan.* I hope that's not what you mean by trying to hurt the show; that's not the *goal,* but neither is flag-waving everything TPTB do in order to Stand By the Show my goal, and I'm still every bit as much a fan as I was during the seasons of X-Files I bitched about, the seasons of Oz I bitched about, the season of Buffy that made my head explode.

[dodificus.livejournal.com]

I feel pretty naive because I have been a fan of fandom for a *long* time now and I mostly see it through rose tinted glasses, which I guess is a lot easier when you're on the sidelines. My love for fanfic and the rest of it often exceeds my love for the source material...by a *lot*. I'm a fan of the writers and artists and fangirl squee-ers and reccers and communities and *everything*. I have less than no talent for writing/drawing/organising so I'm content to just sit back in awe of the awesome talent that I see *every single day*. If you're good then you're good and it doesn't (shouldn't) matter what area you're using your talent in. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm sorry that there are people out there that have taken, or are trying to take, some of the joy out of your experience here.

And your rodney/ronon stories? They're on *my* Bullet Proof Fic list.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

My love of fandom is the very thing that makes this frustrating for me. If I *only* cared about the source material, I'd just watch the show and write my little stories and not even notice what other people were saying. But I like being plugged into the infrastructure of fandom; I like reading people's reviews and their fic and the *comments* on their fic and all the rest of it. I could quit doing all that, but I would miss it -- therein lies the problem. *g*

[lamaudite.livejournal.com]

I'm not going anywhere.

McShep rules? I don't really pay attention to it. I've got my favourite pairings, I've got the ones that are interesting because they're rare or surprising, and I'll often give them a go. I'm not against McShep but I very rarely read them. I'll read them if Ronon (or someone else) is thrown in. Otherwise, it's just too... well, I don't know... common? Watered down?

But to each is own, you know. I think there's plenty to go around for everyone. And if the McShep brigade has to suffer us being around, I couldn't care less. They should. :)

As long as I can get my fic fix, I don't care if I'm being stared at like I've grown a second head because I don't like Strawberry Shortcake. I like Shep, I like McKay moderately, but McShep doesn't do it for me. That should be fine with others just like I don't expect anyone else to rave over the pairings I like.

You say some nitwit is taking offence at that? I say let her wallow in her self-pity party.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Otherwise, it's just too... well, I don't know... common? Watered down?

I think in some ways it's harder to write a popular pairing, for that very reason. Not only is it a challenge to think of something new to say about these people, but there's a psychological mechanism -- I've seen it in every fandom I've been in -- where it's all too easy for writers to get terribly lazy about characterization because, well, everybody knows how right these people are for each other. You can shorthand it; you know your fellow fans will buy your premise whether you bother to put it in the story or not. Overcoming that enough to really do your own characterization, without utterly reinventing the wheel over and over, is actually very hard work. I'm always impressed by the McShep writers who pull it off. More often, yeah -- it comes out watered down, because there's only half a story in place and we're being expected to color in the other half ourselves.

Also, 90% of everything is crap, and 90% of a really popular pairing in a really big fandom is a *lot* of crap. *g*

I wish I had your self-assurance, honestly. I do have issues with being stared at like I'm a freak of nature; my momma taught me not to point at people, because it's rude. *g* I mean, I just think it's fucking civilized to express differences of opinion as fair examples of diversity -- I'll happily tell you that Elizabeth's not my favorite character and I tend not to read Sheppard/Beckett stories, but those are my tastes, my biases. I would never want anyone else to feel like I'm thinking of them as two-headed or dysfunctional in some way if they don't agree with me, and I naively expect the same treatment from others. Usually I receive it, but there's definitely a contingent in this fandom where, not so much.

[--tk--.livejournal.com]

*looks shifty* My favorite pairing is...Rodney/Ronon. There I said it. Hopefully, I will still be alive to read another one.

[caseylane.livejournal.com]

Can you point out some good authors with links?

[apple-pi.livejournal.com]

I can totally understand your hurt here. It's a Strawberry Shortcake world for sure, and being told you can't even HAVE tiramisu once a month just adds insult to injury. (To abuse the hell out of a perfectly innocent metaphor, sorry.)

You know I'm definitely a McKay/Sheppard shipper, and I squee about the boys; they're by far my favorite pairing. But in recent months, thanks to a lot of great writers (you and minervacat come to mind), I've definitely read a lot of other pairings. And reading them doesn't detract at all from my McKay/Sheppard crush; hell, it sometimes adds so much to the mix, like when I read your OT4. There are certain pairings I'll probably never read (I like Tori Higginson, but Elizabeth is just not my cuppa), but what's the point of insulting Sparky shippers and making them feel like they're not welcome? It's a big fandom (really fucking big!), there's room for everyone.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

It's a big fandom (really fucking big!), there's room for everyone.

Well, you'd think so, wouldn't you! If every McKay/Shipper were as sane and decent as you are, here in this many-roomed mansion that is SGA fandom, I'd be happy as a clam in my little Garrett of Weird Pairings.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

I believe (in a blurry there's-not-enough-caffeine-in-my-bloodstream-yet way) that I saw that post, too. I think you may have misinterpreted it. (or we may be thinking of two different posts, because I don't recall anything about unsubscribing from the noticeboard)

The person isn't cranky just because she sees Z/Q stories on the noticeboard, it's because Z/Q shows up as a secondary or background pairing in McShep stories she is reading. So even if she only reads McShep, Z/Q comes creeping into *her* stories.

But then, I just can't get that irritated at what people do in fandom, I follow politics too closely. Politics: Making Fandom Look UnWanky Since ... Forever, Actually.

[havocthecat]

So even if she only reads McShep, Z/Q comes creeping into *her* stories.

That's not really all that awful a fate to have. Seriously.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

I don't think you should delete, b/c I think this is a totally reasonable and not actually in any way, shape, or form offensive rant.

I can't say that I don't ship McShep and pretty much as time goes on am actually reading more exclusively than I used to. At the same time, I'm glad that there's at least a little subfandom that doesn't, that takes these characters other places and sees them differently! And heck, tenth best or not *g*, you're one of the people that can and will make me read other pairings and make me believe them and ship them for just a little bit.

But yes, the attitude is pretty much like the one when people complain when others love another fandom. Instead of being happy that they are happy, it's a very selfish seeming competition that I really dislike and try hard to suppress when, like, my favorite writer's suddenly writing in a fandom where I have to google the character names, y'know :) I want to be happy for everyone getting their squee, and you're right, you guys are already playing with a humongous handicap! It's not a zero sum game but rather squee increases squee I believe!

8hugs*

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

At the same time, I'm glad that there's at least a little subfandom that doesn't, that takes these characters other places and sees them differently!

I'm SO GLAD to hear you say that, because I've always felt that diversity within a fandom was a strength, makes the fandom more flexible and creative and pushes people to come at even their OTP from maybe unanticipated angles once in a while. But then, I've never been an OTPer in any fandom (well, maybe Sentinel, but even there, by accident rather than design), so...I don't know if more exclusive readers/writers/shippers approach that in the same way. It's so very cool to hear that at least some of them do.

[solvent90.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry that the heavy it's all about the McShep slant in this fandom makes it less welcoming to you. Partly, obviously, because I'm sorry that it's hurt you, but also from a purely selfish point of view - it would seriously impoverish this fandom, for me, if you weren't writing in it. I'm trying to phrase this in a way that isn't just *clings to your knees*, but. Hm. *clings to your knees* I just, I really hugely love your vision of these people and the universe they inhabit - I come to your fic for Atlantis, you know, the whole complex fascinating thing, these people and their tangled-together relationships and you always make it more than I ever realise it can be - and no amount of adorable "John and Rodney are in loove" fics, much I enjoy them, would fill in the gap if you left.

*goes back to staring gloomily at the stalled Rodney/Ronon crazy AU*

[trialia]

Dude, you're writing Rodney/Ronon? Rock on! I run the fanlisting for that pairing. ^_^ May I link you when you post?

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

Oh, fer... And people wonder why I get bitter and refer to the pairing as McSheep.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Hee. Now I'm going to have to make a conscious effort not to start using that. Dammit!

[merryish.livejournal.com]

*HUG*

That's a rotten attitude, and I'm sorry it's out there. Just know that for every one person who feels that way, there are ten others out there actively practicing "the more the merrier".

Maybe you have to have been around the fannish block a time or two to realize that while in this fanspace you may be in love with SGA's darlings (I am), your next fannish dream team may be shared by exactly one other person (who is possibly sixteen, and can't spell, and wants Harry and Murphy to get MARRIED). :: kof :: Not that I speak from any kind of experience. But - my point is, I think those of us who've been around for a while have been there, and have some empathy for fans of less overwhelming pairings.

I wish fandom love skewed fair, but it's never going to. So, you know, just *hug* and you know not everybody feels that way. I want you here.

What? Dresden Files is on-topic, right?

[havocthecat]

(who is possibly sixteen, and can't spell, and wants Harry and Murphy to get MARRIED).

Oh, my God. *horrified look* Seriously? I mean, I love Harry/Murphy (do you prefer book or TV?), but MARRIED? Those two? You've got to be kidding me.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

I'm on the fringes of the fandom when it comes to reading/writing - I pretty much just watch the show. And I'm a McKay/Sheppard fan, yes, but I never forget that when I watched Rising the zing I saw was Sheppard/Ford and right now what pushes my buttons is Ronon/Sheppard with a side order of why does no one write Caldwell, dammit and I have that on my to-do list though I don't know if I ever will.

Anyway. That would have pissed me off, too. Sheesh. Suck it up and scroll.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

I would love to read some Caldwell fic! I hope you do get around to it.

[anatsuno.livejournal.com]

gah. :/
I mean, seriously. I'm a john/rodney otp-er and things like that - the discourse you object to, not yours - make me twist my head backwards wondering if I've inadvertently oppressed any non-john-rodney fan this week with my thoughtless t-rex-like presence in the fandom. Because of course I take my pairing for granted in a way, it's everywhere, it's easy to immerse yourself in it and forget about the others if you want, and even if you're not looking for that it might kind of just happens anyway, the waters of the mainstream pairing closing over your head. So it does take *some* vigilance not to become the asshole, there... Plus I can't even begin to understand that kinf of earnest opinion. How can anyone be bothered by the mere existence of another pairin? I've always found that ridiculous.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Because of course I take my pairing for granted in a way, it's everywhere, it's easy to immerse yourself in it and forget about the others if you want, and even if you're not looking for that it might kind of just happens anyway

I think that's a great way to phrase it. It's not some kind of active, agenda-ed "oppression" -- it's just that I think it's easy to be so in your own space 24/7 when you're a majority. And I think some people get very thoughtless that way...but those people I don't have real *anger* toward, just kind of a weary frustration, and some bafflement -- because it's such a weird, strange, diverse, fabulous world out there! Why *wouldn't* you have at least a passing interest in the unknown and the exotic and the new? I just don't get the mindset of all-comfort-food-all-the-time that I sometimes see in Big Majority Pairing Fandoms (SGA particularly, but others as well).

But, hey, not everyone is me, and not everyone wants what I want. All that's just to say, I think that even if you are one of those people who can be thoughtless at times (and I don't know if you are or not, but it's cool that you're willing to consider the possibility), that's a world of difference from the people who actively seem to feel trod-upon because not everyone is them, and not everyone wants what they want.

[(Anonymous)]

*sigh* I wish this was new but in no way is it. There are some who go out of their way to express their hatred of certain pairings. To some, clearly its a spectator sport to make fun of others. This fandom more than any other I've been connected shows the worst in fandom ever - the only positive is that it can express the greatest in fandom too.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

It is a particularly squabbly one, as well as particularly brilliant and creative in some ways. I think it's just that it's so damn big -- the fringes are more obvious than they are in mid-sized fandoms.

[justbreathe80.livejournal.com]

I am SO with you. My experience in this fandom so far has been negative in this regard. I think people who are into the dominant pairing feeling all bent out of shape about what other people choose to do is one of the stupidest things on the planet. Just like you said, THAT'S WHAT THE MOTHERFUCKING BACK BUTTON IS FOR, PEOPLE! You don't have to read anything you don't like. My favorite pairing (at the moment, anyway) is John/Ronon, and there are maybe, what? Three people writing it? I don't think that John/Rodney people have any footing to be upset by the mere existence of other pairings. I will admit that I don't GET some pairings, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have the right to exist.

The longer I spend in this fandom, the more I think that the SGA fandom is like an bratty adolescent, and I keep waiting for the massive blowup (around things like pairings and BNFs) to happen so that the fandom can grow the fuck up already and be an adult. Meanwhile, I will be hiding in the corner, writing whatever the fuck strikes my fancy, and honestly? If I get a comment from someone like you, whom I respect, I don't care if the majority of people give a shit.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's a huge part of the Zen of Surviving SGA Fandom -- you figure out who *your* audience is, and you work to produce stuff that they can respect. Everything isn't for everyone, and nobody knows that better than a John/Ronon shipper, I tell you what! *g*

[30toseoul.livejournal.com]

Damn. I'm glad I haven't seen the post that you're talking about. That kind of massive selfish entitlement drives me insane.

You know, I think it drives me even more insane because I truly don't believe the people who have that selfish attitude are the majority of the McKay/Sheppard fans -- it's just that, unfortunately, they're frequently the loudest and most shit-stirring. They drown out the hordes of reasonable decent people who are able to happily enjoy their Fandom Experience without shitting on other people's fun. I mean, my flist is still majority McKay/Sheppard people because that's what my first dozen or so fics were, but with one glaring anonymous exception, nobody has given me any flack when I started writing OT4 or when I focus on John/Ronon or Rodney/Teyla or whatever within OT4. Quite the opposite -- most folks have followed right along and joined in the squee. (Admittedly that's easier for McKay/Sheppard fans to do with OT4 than if I'd suddenly started with Carson/Radek or something, but still.) Aside from that single anonymous wacko, I've never seen any attitude or disrepectful comments from anyone who enjoyed my earlier McKay/Sheppard stuff. I may be aware that OT4 isn't appealing to some people who'd previously been regular readers, but I only know that because they don't comment -- they've never taken any passive-aggressive sideswipes at me for straying away from the perfect purity of Rodney & John's eternal bliss. (Heh -- I love you for that phrase, by the way. *g*)

Anyway, please hang in there, and try not to let the childish asshats bug you too much. I know it can be tough. I'm not trying to invalidate your frustration or be all Little Mary Sunshine, but I really do believe that they aren't the majority -- their shrillness can just make them seem like it.

And also, I would personally be very sad if you ever did sever your ties with the fandom. I CAN'T TELL YOU how much I'm drooling in anticipation for your next convoluted OT4 opus. *beams*

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree they're not the majority. I mean, I realize I've been interpreted as saying that, but I think I actually didn't, and I certainly never would have on purpose. Some of My Best Friends Are McShep Shippers *g*

[amalthia]

Yeah that statement would have upset me too if I saw it. I think my love of SGA has lasted as long as it did because of the variety of stories/pairings written by good authors. Though it does seem like 90% of the fan fiction is McKay/Sheppard...basically I think the best fandoms are the ones that have multiple plausible or completely implausible character pairings. I don't get why people have to be such bitches about it though. :( But I think Stargate SG-1 set the trend of people hating on other people's favorite pairings and I think some of those fans maybe migrated to SGA. :( My viewpoint is if you don't like something skip over it and move on.

you stand out in this fandom because you write a pairing I want to read but not many people are willing or interested in writing. Some of my favorite authors are on my list because they don't write Mckay/Sheppard or they are willing to write more than one pairing and explore options.

[klia.livejournal.com]

But I think Stargate SG-1 set the trend of people hating on other people's favorite pairings and I think some of those fans maybe migrated to SGA.

I've been into both fandoms, and I can't say I've ever seen any pair wars in SG1. Kerfuffles in that fandom have mostly been shippers vs slashers.

When SGA started airing, kerfuffles flared up pretty quickly. The first one I remember seeing was over a specific story and its McKay and Sheppard characterizations, and how the fandom's earliest writers found them OOC and appalling, and went around bitching about how they were there *first*, and who did these Johnny-come-lately writers think they were, trying to usurp their positions? That was when I backed away from the fandom.

[lilyayl.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this. I'm still slightly in shock that someone actually said that/behaved that way. It is mind-boggling, because I do not see how she could complain. She doesn't have to wait weeks for one fic for a favorite ship to be written and posted. Etc.

Anyway, don't delete this. Please.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

I know, right?! People never just stop and count their blessings! I like to think I would be in euphoria forever and ever if people were writing my favorite pairings as often as people are writing theirs...but probably not. We're humans, we all find things to bitch about sooner or later. *g*

[greenlily.livejournal.com]

Sigh. This is why my personal participation in fandom tends to be more "OMG the source material makes me squee!!! People other than me love it and write about it!! Double squee!!!" and less "I can only enjoy fanfiction if it supports my take on the source material. Promote my OTP or die."

I have never understood people whose enjoyment of a thing is diminished by the knowledge that other people enjoy it differently. That seems like what you're talking about here. My condolences.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

You have a good philosophy: Squee Uber Alles. Love something? Squee! Other people don't love your thing? ... Look at that thing! *Squee!*

I am wholly envious of people like that. I myself? I have my dark moods, where what other people do bothers me very much...as you can see. *g*

[trialia]

Thank you. So fucking much. Why can't I be this coherent in my ranting?

I'm a multi-shipper, and there are three 'ships that I won't touch with a bargepole, and I'm sure you know from my response to this what at least one of them is. I'm a devoted Elizabeth fan. I love Teyla. And I'm also a fan of Rodney... but I resent to all hell the behaviour of certain groups of the Sheppard/McKay fans of late over all this. I really, really do. Your last big paragraph says pretty much why, too.

I'm so fucking sick of certain fan groups - and there are five or six obsessive, very vocal John/Teyla shippers I know who do this as well - gloating over other fan groups' misfortunes and then whining when people do it to them. Now, I'll be honest, I wasn't all that kind when the first rumours of Carson being killed off came to light, because I'm not a fan, but I wasn't deliberately nasty about it, unlike certain people...

In this fandom you apparently can't be a fan of Elizabeth and Teyla at the same time, or John and Rodney without 'shipping them together. And you can't be a fan of Ronon if you like John/Teyla. Or so these groups of people insist. Loudly. Which is so much bullshit. I like John and Rodney, and I like their banter all right-- I just don't want to watch The John and Rodney Show all the damn time. I want equal time for the rest of the characters I've loved.

I quit watching Atlantis after First Strike, though I know there haven't been episodes aired after that, but I'm really too sick of both fandom and the arrogant behaviour of certain PTB to stay around. I'm sick of being kicked in the teeth by TPTB and fandom at large and then going back for more-- I just won't do it anymore.

[racethewind10.livejournal.com]

Oh hell yes you can be a Elizabeth/Teyla fan!! So bite me bitches! Cause I think they are hot!!!!

*clings to trinity1986*

[cinaed.livejournal.com]

Thank you. As someone else said, I only wish I could be this eloquent and coherent when I'm furious about something.

I admit that I got into SGA through McShep fanfiction. There are some amazing writers out there. Then actually I watched the show and realized that I really didn't see the chemistry between McKay and Sheppard. I fell in love with Rodney/Radek instead. R/R is a smaller group. There's a lovely community for the pairing, wondergeeks, which I frequent. I don't like McShep? I don't go to the communities who focus on that pairing, and I skim past the latest McShep announcements on the messageboard. Simple, really, so it seems ridiculous when you find someone complaining about the minor pairings being a hindrance to their enjoyment.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree whole-heartedly with your heated but extremely reasonable complaint -- that some McShep writers have such a sense of self-entitlement that it lessens the enjoyment of other fans. I mean, I remember seeing someone complain about how the sga_newsletter includes threesomes in their McKay/Sheppard section and was simply mind-boggled at the sentiment, which seems to me say that "anything other than McShep is evil and wrong, and I don't want your icky threesomes infecting me."

Unsubscribing from the messageboard because of X/Y pairing? When there are usually at least a handful of McShep posted every single day? It just seems ridiculous, especially when you step back and realize that, hey, some of us like less popular pairings, and we have to wait weeks for a new one or just write them ourselves. Some of us, yes, gripe about the overwhelming McShep that permeates fandom. But can people honestly blame us when scenarios such as the one you mentioned happen, and happen with disheartening frequency?

All this is really to say thank you. It's nice to see someone who understands that SGA fandom is a big playground (with plenty of niches to play in for Rodney/Radek, John/Teyla, Carson/Laura, John/Elizabeth, Rodney/Ronon fans), and that McShep fans really have no basis to cry, "Help, help, I'm being oppressed!" I don't think you should delete your post. It's well-written, reasonable, and something which ought to be addressed.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

I mean, you're exactly dead on my point. It's not beyond the powers of the rest of us to enjoy our fandom while we know that There Is McShep Going On around us. What would make it any more difficult for them to function knowing we're here?

And obviously, 90% of them have no such problem. As usual, it's always a loud minority that isn't satisfied sharing their toys like all the rest of the kids.

[runonmoonlight.livejournal.com]

I came over because of lilyayl (: Also I am at work so this is going to be kind of brief.

Pretty much like everyone I go "Yay! Don't delete this!", because um, to put it very eloquently? Word. *g*

I think I don't get it as well - because as Sci-Fi fans? We're *already* in the minority when it comes to entertainment. People dismiss what we like simply because it's sci-fi and it's categorized by a lot of people as the Star Trek thing with people with green skin and funny ears. You think that as a fandom as a whole we would learn that that kind of dismissal and disdain doesn't help or create positive vibes.

I think though, there's a thing too of - a lot of people seem to just enjoy a good drama. Stir some sit back, and have fun. But that's a whole other topic, and I could possibly just be being very cynical =P

Sometimes, you just want to yell and be like "Calm the fuck down", and well - you did. And thank you. Yay!

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Good point about the fangeekishness -- and we're *slash* fans to boot, so you know, I'd think we'd all be sensitized by now to the connotations of "this thing that you love and find sexy is so gross and awful that I can't even believe it exists, even if I don't have to read it." I mean, how do we react when het people say that about slash? Most of us get mad as hell, because what they're doing is distorting "we have different tastes and desires" into "my turn-ons are normal, good, and right, and yours are sick."

[ceria-taliesin.livejournal.com]

I wish I could say every fandom wasn't like this. I feel for you. It happened in my primary fandom lately, and it sucks. You've got a great post though, and I am glad to read it. It's satisfying to read and go, yep, that's me (as applied to my other fandom).

There's a lot of options to read in SGA, and I love this fandom from what I've seen so far. AND, I'm adding that I'm excited about your OT4 as well.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Is every fandom really like this? I feel lucky that it hasn't been my experience in my other ensemble cast fandoms -- Buffy and popslash were both very free-form, we'll-try-anything-let's-go! kinda fandoms. I'm listening to other people now and realizing they might have been much more the exceptions rather than the rule.

[autiger23.livejournal.com]

Dude, I love McShep. I also love a lot of other pairings. I've been that way in all my fandoms and I've been in it around ten years. So, please don't lump all McShep people in the same boat, because obviously there are some HUGE assholes in the world, of which this person is OBVIOUSLY one. WTF? What a totally asshat.

I completely understand your rant, but I'll also say that I experienced something very similar when I was into X-Files slash and found that Skinner/Krycek was my favorite pairing. That feeling of people not allowing you to just live and let live. And I read other pairings, and there was one I didn't care for, but it's really not that tough to just *not read them*.

That's the part that pisses me off about a large number of people in fandom. Why the fuck do they get worked up or irritated by what someone else likes? Why don't they just read what they like and ignore what they don't? I REALLY don't get this and it's the prime reason that I don't hang out too deeply in fandom. Too many douchebags.

I'll also say that I went to a con about two years ago and there was a panel that asked, 'is there one true pairing?' and I've never thought there was, but the amount of McShep(and Rodney) bashing that one of the leaders of that panel was trying to bring about pissed me off. And I hadn't been in SGA super long, and again, I skirt the edges, so someone told me later that there are assholes in McShepland that are jerks to other pairings. But why take it out on everyone? Especially other people wanting to talk about SGA? No one there was trying to steer the conversation to McShep. No one once said, 'yeah, I think McShep *is* the one, true pairing.' Everyone was there to talk and discuss, so why bash at all?

I'm sorry that there are these people out there, but I can't begin to apologize for them, because there is no apologizing for assholes. Even so, just understand that the very vocal jerks aren't the majority. They just happen to be the loudest.

And personally, I love Rodney/Ronon just as much as McKay/Sheppard, and I love the three of them together more than anything else the way you write them.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

please don't lump all McShep people in the same boat

Oh, never! I mean, I know that's what some people heard me saying, and if I'd been less furious and less, um, slightly drunk and awake at 4 a.m. when I wrote that, I probably would have tried to make that even more clear. I mean, I did try, but maybe not hard enough?

There's a lot of anger in this fandom around the OTP issue -- obviously. And people on both sides have behaved in tacky ways, and I tried not to be one more of them, but then I try to do a lot of things that don't always pan out for me. *g*

[infinimato.livejournal.com]

Oh dear gods, me and my broken keyboarrd are behind you 385930285390.3 percent.

I think the only thing worse than people who refuse to see SGA as anything BUT McShep are the idiots (and, sorry, but that's the *nicest* thing I've called them) who take non-McSheppy stuff and insist that IT WILL TURN OUT McSHEP.

I'm pissy about this that I once wrote (in jest) something that was past-mcshep but then wasn't, and couldn't stop myself from putting at the end "And no, they don't live happily ever after, get over it." I was amazingly surprised that the McSheppers weren't rallying around demanding my lynching, but I'm sure half of them will never read anything by me again. Oh, well.

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Oh dear gods, me and my broken keyboarrd are behind you 385930285390.3 percent.

I think the only thing worse than people who refuse to see SGA as anything BUT McShep are the idiots (and, sorry, but that's the *nicest* thing I've called them) who take non-McSheppy stuff and insist that IT WILL TURN OUT McSHEP.

I'm pissy about this that I once wrote (in jest) something that was past-mcshep but then wasn't, and couldn't stop myself from putting at the end "And no, they don't live happily ever after, get over it." I was amazingly surprised that the McSheppers weren't rallying around demanding my lynching, but I'm sure half of them will never read anything by me again. Oh, well. <insert eyeroll here.>

And may I also rant about challenges and ficathons where the people who write McShep get (at least) twice the number of comments as the people who don't? It depresses me, it does.... especially when you bust your butt and get 0 comments for it.

In conclusion: RAARRR!!

[xxsignsoflifexx.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWord! I'm a McShepper, but it burns my butt when I see stuff like this. I've read so many wonderful stories with other pairings that it boggles the mind to see someone post something like that. I'm sorry not to be more coherent with this response, but it takes me back to my short time in the LoTR RPS fandom- Lord forbid you read and like anything other than the Dom/Billy pairing and say so. In conclusion- RAARRR indeed!!

Val

P.S- One of my ultimate comfort fics is a little story called "Handsome Johnny" and it's gen!

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

I think what happens is that people tend to forget that they are not being read exclusively by their particular group. I imagine this poster didn't realize that her post would be seen and reacted to by people who don't share her point of view on J/R and Z/Q. Which doesn't excuse it by any stretch of the imagination (hello, it's fucking LiveJournal), but makes it less...actively malicious. (After all, if it had only been heard by people who share her views, no one would have been hurt.)

...Or that's what I keep telling myself, every time I hit the wall on this issue. Even though you mostly write pairings I'm not interested in, I'm glad that you're so prolific with your non-J/R-centric fic, 'cause it can be lonely out there!

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

I think you're very right; it's very hard to define or be aware at all times of the boundary between personal communication and public discourse on something like livejournal -- she said knowingly, having just had a bitter, drunken, 4 a.m. rant metafandom'ed and suddenly spawning 150 comments! Things that are totally inappropriate to say to someone's face are sometimes totally reasonable things to say to your friends, and there's not always a clear indicator of which space you're in. Of course, the safest is to assume that the mic is always on and you could be quoted at any time *g* -- but I do have some sympathy for people who forget that. It's easy to forget.

I doubt she's a malicious person. The sad fact is, from any kind of position of privilege, it's really, really easy to forget that what you say can actually affect people. It's selfish, but who *isn't* selfish at least some of the time? It happens.