hth | things that i have learned about rants

Rule #1: don't write them.
Rule #2: see rule #1

Well, I told you I'd probably regret it in the morning, and I do. Not that I think I didn't have something valid to say -- actually, that's *why* I regret doing it.

The thing is that credibility is so much easier to squander than it is to build. I'm a pretty level-headed and rational person, most of the time, but -- just like I took the original poster's words out of all context and made that everything you know about her (hell, everything *I* know about her) -- now this one angry outburst of mine is out there, out of all context about me, and is all a lot of people have any reason to know about me. That I yelled and called people names. It doesn't really inspire people to give a damn who I am or what I think.

I've spent over ten hours now trying to respond to basically everyone who bothered to comment on the post, trying to add context and to demonstrate that, no, actually, I prefer serious conversation to screaming matches any day of the week. Right now I'm exhausted and stressed and depressed, because I know a few things about people, and I know that none of that really matters. It took me 5 minutes of being tired and pissy and careless to make a lot of people feel hurt and angry, when I could have gone to bed, gotten up, had breakfast, and spent 30 minutes on a post that would've said all the same things in a way that I wouldn't have had to feel ashamed of later. And I know it won't matter to anyone how hard I tried to be reasonable *after the fact* -- what they know about me now is that I'm a psycho bitch. That's always the part that people remember, you know? And I'm the same way -- there were some people who said things during the race debate recently that make me look at them differently now. And they're probably great people, and they probably said those things out of being hurt and angry, too, and they may well feel bad afterwards, too, but the nature of this kind of thing is, once the damage is done, it's pretty much done. That's now the first thing I think of when I think of them.

5 minutes to persuade people that you're the enemy. 10 hours doesn't undo it. Hell, I'm not sure 10 years undoes it; there's certainly no good way to trade on previous fandom capital, much as I'd like to. I'd love to be able to say, yeah, but look at all the times when I was reasonable and empathetic and I made my point in as fair-minded and well-qualified way as humanly possible, in all those other fandoms, all those other arguments. But who gives a damn? People who don't know me won't change their opinions of me because I say that, and I'd be insane to expect that they would. Even some of my oldest friends in fandom -- some people whose John/Rodney stories I've been a beta reader for -- have pretty much vanished on me over this, and if I can't expect those people to forgive me for having a temper fit in public, I can imagine the likelihood that the rest of the fandom will.

So, yeah. If you ever find yourself thinking that it will make you feel better to rant about whatever it is that upsets you, may I humbly suggest to you that, in fact, it could easily make you feel worse -- because of the real people you realize you have now hurt in turn, and also because in fandom, your name and your reputation is the capital that you have. Also, if you actually did have a point, and it was actually non-insane, it won't matter, because you will be interpreted in the worst possible light, because the first and largest thing that people will see is your hostility. They won't have any reason to give you the benefit of any doubt where there might have been confusion or misunderstandings, because they've already read you as hostile and ascribed that motive to everything you say. No amount of "but I didn't actually say that" matters, even if you didn't actually say that. That's what they heard, and you threw open the door to that version of reality yourself, by virtue of the kind of person you presented yourself as. You will not feel better.

I hope someone does a better job with this issue than I have, someday soon. There is real anger on every side of the issue, and other fandoms have torn themselves apart over this exact thing in the past. Over and over again in fandom, we fail to deal well with issues of power and inclusion; I'm the last in a long line of people who've failed to deal with it well.

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Man, I'm not in Stargate fandom, so I pretty much skimmed over your rant, but as someone who's been there, done that in terms of the (non-insane, to the best of my recollection) ranting and the squandering, I'm sorry you're where you are tonight.

One of the reasons I like my flock is that everyone reading has at least a certain sense of context. It also forces me to really make sure I want the world to read what I have to say when I unlock.

FWIW, I thought you did a great job explaining and contextualizing as I was reading through the threads, but yes, if that had been in the original post...

I'm sorry you're feeling horrible, and I appreciate you talking about the issues of public ranting and open bitchiness and the fallout and repercussion on all sides.

And I know it won't matter to anyone how hard I tried to be reasonable *after the fact*

It matters to me! Because, dude, you were *stupendously, awesomely* reasonable after the fact!

Also, see, the same impulse that makes me think, "But--the power dynamics in fandom, while they can suck for the marginalized groups, just *aren't the same* as the ones that make us call out the dominant culture when it comes to racism or sexism or heterosexism. With fannish pairing preferences, if people can step back for a minute, they can see they're not actually being oppressed even when their preferences don't get equal time or respect" also makes me think that, well, we don't *have* to look at each other differently after this kind of blow-up, in contrast to how I feel about looking at people differently after the race discussions.

I mean, with some people's outbursts in the race discussion, I feel like the only way to interpret them is, "I feel so upset right now I will rant without caring how it affects fans of color reading this, even though I ought to know they have to deal with all kinds of unfair oppression all the time and this will be yet another example of a white person privileging their own interests over their identities! My feelings are more important right now than caring about racial oppression!" And I don't think that's cool, because I think racial oppression is important enough that people ought to know they don't get to dismiss it, even if they only did it because they felt upset and they felt bad later about it.

Here, though, a rant is basically saying, "I feel so upset right now that I will rant without caring how it affects all McShep fans reading this, even though I know many of them are nice and spend a lot of time in fandom caring about McShep! My feelings are more important right now than their identifying with what I'm condemning!" And while it's never that nice to basically be saying, "My feelings are more important than yours," I think reasonable people can forgive it in cases like this. Especially when the ranter goes to such stupendous, awesome lengths to be reasonable afterwards!

From your mouth to Alec Baldwin's ears.

No, sorry--everybody gets mad and says stuff they believe in ways or forums they regret, or that diminish the force of what they're trying to convey. On a daily basis, in my case. I'm not in on SGA fandom at all, but I did read your post, and it was representative of sentiments I've heard expressed by some of my SGA friends. I'm sorry this turned out the way it did for you, because in my very limited exposure to you from your LJ, you always seem like a really reasonable person with a really healthy attitude towards fandom. I just went back and read over some of the comments in that post, and the way you dealt with the kerfuffle on your LJ reinforces that impression of you.

Anyway...I hope you don't beat yourself up too much more over this, and that fandom goes back to being fun for you soon.

I'm sorry this has had such icky fallout for you; I don't know if it's any comfort, but I didn't think your rant was all that inflammatory, to be honest. It's very easy for people to take offense, but that shouldn't necessarily mean no one gets to speak their mind. Yes, there might have been more politic ways to say some of that, but (and this is just my opinion, of course) seriously: it wasn't that bad. I didn't feel like you took away my McKay/Sheppard love, or made me any less likely to jump up and down shrieking "OH MY GOD THEY'RE SO MARRIED!" after any particular episode. Anyway, as others have said, I hope this blows over soon, and you get your fandom!joy groove back.

I think that what you're saying about how people who don't know you are going to judge you on what they see and won't be sympathetic to the fact that it was a temporary aberration is true in general, but I also think you have a lot more fandom capital than you're giving yourself credit for here. For whatever it's worth, I certainly don't think any less or differently of you over this whole thing. (And I happen to agree with what you said in your original post--although I wish for your sake that you had said it differently, since obviously you were really upset when you wrote that and are feeling the fallout now--and yeah, it definitely makes it worse when you're left kicking yourself for giving up the high ground when the points you were trying to get across in the first place were so valid). Anyway, I'm sorry you're going through this and hope you won't feel too bad over it for too long.

If it helps at all: I am a John/Rodney person, and I have you friended, and I read your rant, and I thought, "huh, I don't really agree with some of that, but whatever, she's angry, I see where she's coming from, and I still like her," and now you're being all reasonable about it, and I like you even more for it. And I am only one person, but for what it's worth, there it is.

You're not wrong - ranting *can* make you look bad, and it *can* make you feel worse, and it *can* make you lose cred with people you know and people you don't.

However - it's also true that fandom has the memory of a drunken gnat, and what's a big deal today will be forgotten by the time tomorrow's big deal rolls around. It's also true that for 90% of your flist, your next story will heal all wounds. And it's also true that it's the lens you're looking through right now, and everything is colored by it, and it feels way worse than it is. I speak as the woman who accidentally implied in public that Justin Timberlake wasn't all that, once long ago, and today I can't even find the scars!

*HUG*

Just seeing Justin and the dolphin makes me all smiley!!!

As does fandom has the memory of a drunken gnat, b/c that needs to be iconed it's so perfect :)

*hugs*

Well, I think your being utterly reasonable after the fact is actually really happy-making, 'cos other fandom rows I've been on the edge of have caused people to throw all their toys out the pram and leave. I think this is an incredibly mature and lovely attitude to have, after having dealt with all the flak, like you have been doing for ten hours. And I say that as a McShepper who read the rant, went 'huh', don't really agree with that, but moving on...

Also, totally agree with

merryish - storm in a teacup, people won't remember past the first new fic.

We all do it at one point in time, it's the people that keep doing it and don't learn from it that get annoying. We're human and get angry and say things in anger that later on we regret. The only thing I can suggest is that the next time you write one (if there's ever a next time) flock it or even filter to people that know you well enough to realize this isn't the norm for you. Hell, I don't know you and I realize it's not the norm.

But I've been there, and lost some lj friends over it, so I know it's much more painful the following days in the aftermath of it.

I actually didn't think there was anything offensive in your rant. I mostly read J/R but I totally get the other pairings. In fact, season 3 seemed more and more R/Ronan.

Sorry, getting back to the point, your comments seemed quite reasonable to me in light of the ridiculous comments of the other person about being affronted at the very existence of fic in pairings she didn't like.

After a while away from livejournal (mostly because it has the potential to be full of idiots) and a year or two where I had sketchy internet access, I'm building up a new journal.

I've friended you so that your new stories will show up on my f'list. I'm a fan of your writing, needless to say, and I'm mostly of the opinion that random pairings are good - not because of the characters per se, but that the quality of writing to bring two less obvious characters together without making them out of character is necessarily higher.

Fandom is the ultimate clique, we all do what we did at school, but without any of the normal social constraints or easily understood rules. I stay out mostly cause when I'm in, I'm annoyed, but the sidelines can work too. And being a well known writer - well, you're public property - it comes with the fame, status and money...oh wait, this isn't real life. Guess the idiots forget that!

I am gobsmacked to hear that people who know you in any other way than passing acquaintance can turn their backs on you (people you have beta'd john/rodney for a while back? what?) for that rant. I'm with apple_pi & geekturnedvamp & merryish - it wasn't unjustified as rants go, what you said was valid. :/ I'm sorry it's so hard right now. It will pass! High emotions do this. We can't totally all be zen all the time, anyway, what would that be like! Boring.

Wow. I can't believe how big this has become. Come on, people. Lighten up. You're allowed to rant. This is your personal LJ, ffs. You weren't nasty about it either so, yeah, wow at the heavy duty reactions out there. You even had a 'disclaimer' a mile long!

I wouldn't fret any longer about this. It's done. You explained your position. You were quite civil and polite about it. If there are still people out there looking to press aggravated assault charges from reading your post, I say, let 'em. They're missing the point anyway.

(I gotta ask though, who posted it on sga_noticeboard as meta? Was that you or someone looking to get you, FandomWank-like and all?)

I didn't do the noticeboard, but I did memory the metafandom, mostly because I really thought that while it was ranty, it made a general point that was important. As I've said before, I'm always quite uncomfortable with the attention newsletters can and do bring to posts and the way they decontextualize, but the general advantages and the convenience still win out for me. But no hidden agendas going on in the newsletter links....

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I hope you don't mind hugs from LJ-ers who are basically strangers. 'Cause. *HUG*. *lots of hugs, lots of them*

You're smart and passionate and you seem like a good person. *nods*

BTW-- I know what you're saying about reputation and fandom, but look at the other side of it:

There's doing something that you regret, or doing it in a way you regret, and there's how you handle it afterwards. People always tell me that it's the "afterwards" part that's really the measure of you as a person.

So, this post? A good "afterwards," I think.

This is not to tarnish my above attempt at comfort but: *thinks*

The original entry that made you go boom? I admit, after reading it, that I'm surprised that that's what made you go boom. And I really hope you two work it out (assuming y'all want to.)

At the same time, if you were feeling that feeling, and if so many people responded to that rant feeling the same feeling, and they did, than maybe it's a case of... like, there's an issue in fandom that clearly needs discussing, though I admit surprise that that was the post that acted as the catalyst. I know you write Rodney/Ronon (I'm glad you write Rodney/Ronon!), so that remark must have stung, but I'm still kinda surprised. Again, I hope you guys are able to reconcile or something.

And again, not trying to un-do the reaching-out I was trying to do above. But I admit I feel bad that I broke my own personal rule when it comes to fandom-related rants -- to read everything before commenting and speaking.

And I hope I'm not making you feel bad, since it's clear you feel bad already, and are trying to make things better.

Well, the first thing that I *still* think of you is, 'hey, it's that awesome writer.' We all have these moments and it's tough sometimes to get across what you're really thinking when you're upset.

And, I think you're right, there is real anger on both sides of this. And I maintain my stance of WTF? over that to BOTH sides. Why can't we, fandom *especially* live and let live. I think it is completely ridiculous that slash fandom in particular can't do this, considering that probably every single one of us feel some level empathy with other people who just want to have society live and let live. But God forbid we take that and apply it to ourselves. It seems like some people just find it easier to find someone to hate or be unkind to, rather than go walking in their shoes for a while.

And that's really the problem with our world as a whole- so until it gets fixed out there (which I think, sadly, will be a chilly day in hell), it's not going to be fixed in here. And the best you can do is make sure you aren't one of the people being hateful or unkind just because someone was that way to you once (and I'm not referring to you her at all) and possibly toss people a clue when they are doing it to others. And they might know they are and just be that kind of a person. But they also could take away from it a new perspective. Here's hoping.

Been there, done that, sworn to never do it again and still have.

It happens.

Still sucks, but I doubt there's anyone on LJ who's never lashed out in a fit of irritation and wished they could edit memories as well as posts the next morning.

::hugs::

It'll blow over. And you didn't do anything wrong; you didn't plagiarise, offer to sell your fics for money, tell lies, pretend to be dead... you just ranted.

If that's a crime, I'm not throwing stones.

i'm so tempted to rant about something completely different in my LJ...but you're right it can be a big pain in the ass. But for what it's worth I think you had some valid points and I didn't feel at all offended by what you'd written. Probably because I don't think I've ever complained about being overwhlemed by the rare pairings in any one location.

I think your actual lesson is rant under lock (possibly also filtered, possibly even private.) But go ahead and write the rant, and if you want to discuss with wider fandom/a bunch of strangers over the internet, then rewrite such that your discussion will be heard.

Well, I remember you from X-Files fandom (my first fandom! mumbletysomething years ago, when I was a wee fanlet!), writing really hot femslash, and that will always be my primary association with you.

Also, although I am new to SGA fandom, I just saw "Tao of Rodney" and I instantly thought "Must have Rodney/Ronon slash NOW!" and then I thought "who writes Rodney/Ronon?" and then I thought of you. So, your reputation is safe with me, at least.

I'm not really involved in any fandom right now, other than reading fic. (Try being a Brian/Michael fan in QAF and you find out just what marginalized means.) I found your rant could fit in any fandom that I've ever been part of.

The sad part is the people that used to be friends that can't respect your difference of opinion. Shame on them.

I hope this blows over quickly and doesn't mess with your love of the show.

Flocking is your friend :)

In any discussion (even if its a ranting discussion) if your subject line has curse words in it, perhaps you're taking the wrong approach. I still respect you though, who hasn't ever said something they wished they hadn't (in fandom or real life)?